Anne-Laure Le Cunff - How to Design Tiny Experiments Like a Scientist
Was completely lost at the time. I had left my job at Google. I had worked on a couple of startups. My startup had failed. And all of a sudden, I found myself in this situation where I didn't know what the next step should be.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a clear vision. So I decided to go back to the drawing board and ask myself, what is something I'm curious about? And for me, that was
Nick Milo:Welcome to How I Think with my guest today, Anne Laure Lacombe.
Nick Milo:She is the author of the book Tiny Experiments, a transformative guide to rethinking our approach to goals, creativity, and life itself from a neuroscientist and entrepreneur and the creator of the popular Nest Labs newsletter. In this episode, we talk about redefining success, the importance of curiosity, and the power of tiny experiments, and much more.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:How are you doing? Very good. Thanks for having me, Nick.
Nick Milo:Yeah. This is amazing. So we're over here in Los Angeles after the second brain summit. And be honest, how are you feeling right now?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I'm exhausted, but in a very good way. Inspired. I feel like I have so much to process and digest. So feeling good, but I need a I need a bit of sleep.
Nick Milo:I am in the same boat because it was just such amazing energy, the summit that Tiago put on, bringing us all together. And it was quite amazing because we have nonrecorded keynotes, including something that you shared. And I took a few notes about your upcoming book, Tiny Experiments. And now we're going to talk about a lot of different things. Yes.
Nick Milo:Covering the book. I know you didn't just wanna talk about that, but it was pretty amazing, and everyone loved what you had to say. So I I hope we can cover a few of those things.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Thank you. Yeah. It was my first time talking about it in public on stage, and it was an amazing experience after spending two years writing on my own. Just me, my thoughts, and my computer, starting to put those ideas into the world is an amazing feeling.
Nick Milo:Yes. My goodness. And so, like, just to kinda zoom out a little bit, two years to write this, but it started way before that because you were writing online. And what kicked that off? So what makes someone go from whatever you're doing before to saying, all of a sudden, I'm going to write an article online.
Nick Milo:Like, take us back to that that moment, that critical point.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Absolutely. I was completely lost at the time. That was a few years ago. I had left my job at Google. I had worked on a couple of startups.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:My startup had failed. And all of a sudden, I found myself in this situation where I didn't know what the next step should be. I didn't have a plan. I didn't have a clear vision. So I decided to go back to the drawing board and ask myself, what is something I'm curious about?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Even if success or the outcome was completely out of the equation, what would be something I would be happy to wake up and study every day even if nobody was watching? And for me, that was the brain. I had always been curious about how the brain works and why we think the way we think. So I went back to school to study neuroscience.
Nick Milo:Mhmm.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And in order to really start deeply thinking about these ideas, not just trying to memorize the content that we were taught in school, really make those ideas my own, I decided to start writing online to start translating those ideas into something that other people could use in their daily lives and work.
Nick Milo:I think, if I'm not mistaken, your first article, which kind of maybe set the tone for everything that came, I don't know, was called something about the generation effect?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. You have a very good memory. That was the title of the article, the generation effect.
Nick Milo:Okay.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:The reason why this was the very first article was because this is actually what inspired this project in the first place of writing online about what I was studying in university about neuroscience. The generation effect is a a phenomenon that shows that when you write about an idea in your own words, you're both going to understand it better and remember it better. So it's an amazing learning tool, just taking an idea, and instead of and this is something you've written a lot about. But instead of just copy pasting, taking a note, actually making something out of this idea that is your own is going to help you learn better. And that was part of what inspired me to start a newsletter and say, okay.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Every week, I'm going to pick something I studied in university, and I'm going to turn it into something that is truly my own.
Nick Milo:Yeah. I can't agree more. That that's where we vibe so well on on the value of that making process. And it's really an unfair advantage. I mean, you're you're a really great example of that, where you just wrote.
Nick Milo:And how many articles are on your your your website, Nest Labs, at this point?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I think almost 500 articles at this stage.
Nick Milo:Oh my goodness. And and you did you didn't you give yourself a tiny experiment to write? Was it, like, a hundred articles or something? And then give it okay.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. What was that for you? I, I started with, so this is actually something I talk about in the book, how to design an experiment. Mhmm. And I explained that what's really important is that you define the action, what you're going to do, and the duration, which is the number of trials, how many times you're going to repeat that action.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:In my case, I decided to do a hundred articles in a hundred weekdays. Not a hundred days because I wanted to take the weekends off. But that's what I did, and, it was absolutely amazing to see the progress during the experiment, everything I was learning, but also discovering what I liked and what I didn't like in terms of topics, in terms of formats, even in terms of where I was sharing those articles. So by the end of the experiment, I had a lot of data that just didn't exist before I got started.
Nick Milo:Mhmm. I freaking love that. And it's so so simple, but it just it works. It's this, modern day unfair advantage where if you in this case, for you, you're writing, you're sharing out there in the world, and you might get some feedback. Even no feedback becomes a form of feedback because maybe that idea just didn't resonate.
Nick Milo:It didn't click. And it is really just an unfair way of operating in the world, but we all have access to this opportunity. And I think that's wild that at the the heart of a lot of the what's in the book with the tiny experiment is is kind of, like, in this meta way. It was your experiment to do this writing challenge for yourself, and it just seems so fun. It's just, like, no pressure, no stress.
Nick Milo:You're just going to do this thing. And, what really struck me about this and I'm curious, like, how you approach this idea. It wasn't just I'm going to write weekly newsletter, and that's just what I'm going to do. You said I'm going to do 100 articles on 100 consecutive workdays. So you gave yourself this duration.
Nick Milo:And I think that's, like, a component I don't think enough about in my own goals or efforts or whatever. So, like, how come you just came about? Like, was that just by accident? Or you just said, I'm gonna do this? Or how come the duration was that?
Nick Milo:And how do you think about the duration with setting intention?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I actually discovered this format in my studies, in my scientific studies. It's the way all scientists design experiments. What you do is that you state in advance how many trials you're going to have. Because if you don't do that, you're going to be tempted to stop in the middle or to take a break when the outcome doesn't necessarily look like what you expected. And in that way, you would just fall prey to confirmation bias all the time if you stopped whenever you're like, actually, that that doesn't look great.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I'm just going to stop now. So by defining the number of trials before you get started, it forces you to wait until you have all of the data before you make a decision.
Nick Milo:That is yeah. That's it. Like, that is beautiful. And it ties into something that I think you articulated so well. So when I was watching your recent, speech, heads in the audience, they do they, like, cocked to the side, including mine.
Nick Milo:I mine, really. I was like, oh. But it was about the definitions of success. So there's a standard one. I was like, okay.
Nick Milo:Okay. I get that. And I'm kinda curious if you could cover that. But what really popped out to me was the scientists' take on a on what success is. And I just thought this is like a goosebump moment.
Nick Milo:So could you can you kinda help us out with success, what it was, and how you're interpreting it?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Absolutely. Success, the most common definition of it, and the one I followed for most of my life when I was you know, I I got a job at Google, and then I worked on a start up. I did all of these things, and it was based on the most common definition of success, which is reaching a desired outcome.
Nick Milo:Mhmm.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And you're retrying to get to a predefined destination. When you don't get there, you blame yourself. That's basically the pattern most of us are following and how we're taught to Yeah. Chase success. Yeah.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Scientists have a completely different definition of success. The way they define it is learning something new. As long as you learn something new, you haven't failed. As long as you collect new data, you haven't failed. And that really changes everything if you start applying this experimental mindset in your life and in your
Nick Milo:work. Oh, I love that so much. It's learning something new, and then you don't fail. So it just becomes, okay. Let's set a tiny experiment for it's here's the action, and here's the duration.
Nick Milo:And I just love the formula. It's so great. I'm curious, though. So even going back a little bit, something that you were saying earlier is, when you left Google, blank slate, blank whiteboard, and you're just going to kind of allow your curiosity to guide you a little bit. But where did that, like, come from?
Nick Milo:Was it a parent that you modeled after? Was it just your environment growing up? Where do you feel that curiosity bug, that inner innate part of you was really, I guess, nurtured or fostered, or was it more of a screaming to come out? Like, where was the curiosity from as you were growing up?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I think I definitely was lucky to grow up in an environment where there were lots of books around me. So I had lots of opportunities to explore my curiosity as a kid, but I then started focusing on this very linear definition of success. So I stopped at some point, which is very sad when I think about it. And sometimes I I do fall back into this pattern, so this is something I really pay attention to. But there was a period in my life where I would only read books if they were very clearly connected to an objective that I was trying to achieve.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:So it had to be connected to a project at work or something where I wanted to grow. And for me, what helped me reconnect with my curiosity in a strange way was to not have any objective anymore. I was completely lost, and it was terrifying for someone who, for most of her adult life, had had very clear goals, a very clear definition of success, and a very clear path to get there.
Nick Milo:Mhmm.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Because when you're in a corporate environment, you know what you're supposed to do to get a promotion. You know what success looks like. It's getting this role. It's getting this project, etcetera. So finding myself completely lost, not knowing what I should do next in a strange and, at the time, terrifying way is what allowed me to reconnect with that childlike curiosity, which I had known before.
Nick Milo:To kind of reconnect with the stranger of your past, your curious impulse, That's just it's it's really amazing. And I'm kinda curious as you're transitioning and exploring things from, you know, one mindset of productivity, which becomes oftentimes a toxic form as we we all can relate to, and sort of this new mode of operating or an an evolved form of operating. I kind of wonder, you're not just reading nonfiction. You must have some fiction books that I do you have anything that's just kinda like your hidden little secret, like, fiction book or a few of these that are used so much?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I read a lot of fiction, and it's actually one of my principles now that I really try to balance fiction and nonfiction. Mhmm. And it's almost a symptom, actually. If I'm reading a lot of nonfiction, it is a symptom for me, a signal I pay attention to that I might be too focused on productivity. Oh, yeah.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:At that time, because I'm just trying to make the most of my time to always learn new skills, something I could apply. So I would say that this is maybe, like, more of a this is not something I have actually written about. So thank you for for the question, but it would be one of my little secrets, the fact that I always try to balance fiction and nonfiction. And if I notice that I've maybe been reading three nonfiction books in a row, I will insert a fiction book. And I particularly like science fiction.
Nick Milo:Oh, lovely. I I think I think this is such an interesting topic that we maybe haven't talked about that much, but it's I think it just on the fringe of things with it is is that exactly that. One, I love the signal. It's a signal. Okay.
Nick Milo:If you're reading too much nonfiction, you know, put the next self help book down and consider going to a totally different aisle of, like, Barnes and Noble or waters Waterstones. Is that
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. Waterstone in The UK. Yes.
Nick Milo:Lovely. And find that fiction book. You know the one that I read, and I was probably about just about to turn 30, and just hit me at the perfect time. And it's one that I know you're familiar with, is Le Petit Prince, The Little Prince.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. Do you want me to say it in French?
Nick Milo:Please.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Le Petit Prince.
Nick Milo:I mean, is that required reading in France?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. It is. I think I think it is. I don't think I know anyone who hasn't read
Nick Milo:it. Okay. Yeah. And it's just it's it's I'll even go as far as to say is if I know someone's just reading nonfiction, I kinda don't wanna talk to them. And if I know someone is in if someone is interesting, it turns out they're reading fiction.
Nick Milo:And it's like so if you want to be toxically productive and game the system, the key is actually through fiction, which is going to cure you of your your impulses to be toxically productive.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:What? Absolutely. And it's such a source of inspiration as well. I've had so many of my best ideas coming from being inspired by the way a fictional character thought about a problem or a situation.
Nick Milo:Mhmm.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:How they navigated something that looked like it was impossible to solve, and then maybe they reached out to a friend or maybe they took a completely different path to get to where they wanted to go. And if you're in similar situations in your daily life and work, that can be way more inspiring than a three step process in a nonfiction book.
Nick Milo:And that's the sort of stuff that creates value. And I've seen you do this. And I have a very specific example of you doing this, taking something from the fictional world, the the creative the the novel writing world, and taking it into a completely different field, which this entire week, this special summit that we're able to attend, everyone was talking about. And you really introduced it to PKM to the best of my knowledge. And that's the the concept of architects and gardeners that, as far as I know, was originally to the bet I don't think it came from George r r Martin, but he's definitely the only source I can track it back to.
Nick Milo:I don't know, like, how you stumbled upon it, but what you did was you reinterpreted it, an idea from outside of you know, he writes his world building novels. And so, like, that's the magical moment that you took it from one medium to another. So can you speak to that specifically, architects and gardeners?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. I did stumble upon his essay a few years ago, and it just hit me that it perfectly he was talking about writing novels and explaining that some people have this top down approach and they're more like architects and other people have this bottom up approach and they're more like gardeners. And it really hit me that that could apply to note taking as well. And, I took that, so explained that the the architects, they like to structure the ideas. Gardeners, they like to just let them emerge more organically.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And, I added the librarian. He just needs to store their ideas somewhere and access them very easily, but they don't have this need to necessarily connect them or structure them in the way that the architect and the the gardener might want to do it. And, what I love about this idea the most is not even, how useful it's been to me and how practical it's been to me, is how it took a life of its own and how other people, including you, Thiago Forte, have been building on top of it, expanding it, and bringing it in directions that I could have never imagined. So Thiago, for example, added the student as a fourth archetype. And you for I I love how you've expanded a lot, the idea that you're not necessarily one or the other.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:You can actually embody the architect in some phases of a project and then switch to the gardener when it makes sense and have this intentional approach almost like this little cognitive dance where you decide to wear one hat or the other. And this is very meta, but for me, noticing how g r r Martin had this idea. I read it. I decided to take it into a completely different direction.
Nick Milo:Mhmm. Which personal knowledge management, which is a pretty nerdy field, but it is growing, And it's something it's a need we all need because we have informational anxiety or pain or whatever it is. So so okay. So you did this. Okay.
Nick Milo:Keep going. You
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:No. And then the fact that you read that, you expanded on it. And maybe someone right at this moment is working on the next iteration of this based on something they watched on your channel or that they read that you wrote about. This is what's exciting about being alive today and being connected to so many fellow curious minds and thinkers is this belief that whatever idea you put into the world is going to start having a life of its own and is going to keep on growing even if you're not yourself still actively working on it.
Nick Milo:Yeah. I think so. I think so. It is wild how these ideas emerge in unexpected ways and and lead somebody else to a breakthrough. And it's just like so thank you for bringing that to to the PCAM field.
Nick Milo:I think it's at the core of everything, the entire creative process, the movement back and forth between the architect mindset and the gardener mindset. I know in an earlier entrepreneur effort with, my friend, Garrett, we we had a fitness boxing business. It's still running. And we were brainstorming ideas of where to take the business, but I tend to be more of an architect. So I was, like, grilling him, like a prosecution.
Nick Milo:I was, like, but what do you mean? Like, tell me, like, how does this work? And I completely misread the vibe, and I killed it. So that this concept even expands into interpersonal relationships and meetings. It's like, what type of meeting am I having right now with my coworkers, colleagues, friends, family?
Nick Milo:And am I showing up in the right way? I think it's got a lot of legs. If I can, I'd like I'm curious how you approached gardening and, you know, how you think about gardening in this context with your book. Because at the end of the day, the book right here. I'm gonna hold it up for just a moment.
Nick Milo:Tiny experiments. I love it. I love the the cool dots and everything. I it's just it's freaking amazing. How to live freely in a goal obsessed world.
Nick Milo:Isn't this isn't a plug. Like, this doesn't have to be. It's just I love I love it so dearly. It's a book. It's got a physical form.
Nick Milo:You could say it's like an artifact in the world that will last forever. So at the end of the day, a lot of the gardening energy has to, I don't know, be architected into a structure. Can I'm just how did you what's your creative process here with the book? Like, let's let's talk about it. Let's dig in deep.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:This is such a great question because this is actually something that gave me a bit of anxiety at the beginning of this project. I was so used to writing online where I had this very emergent process where I could write something and then get feedback from people and then sometimes just go back to whatever I had published and update it and edit it. There are still articles that I have published in 2019 that I'm editing to this day.
Nick Milo:So so this is digital gardening, and and you have your your cool term for for it as well. I'm sure you're getting to, but it's just a form of gardening. When we when we talk about that term, it's in this case, your an article, once it's published, it's not locked in stone.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:No. Absolutely not. It it's just a seed that I have planted. It will grow. And, and just to keep on using the the metaphor of, like, I like using the term a mind garden, but
Nick Milo:Love it.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:You you water that that seed to see what it will grow into. The the watering happens, in public with other people contributing to fertilizing the seed. So not only I published this article, but I share it in the newsletter, I post it on social media, and I have people comment on it. Sometimes it's just to say, that was great. That was so helpful.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Thank you. But very often, I also have people replying to my emails and saying, by the way, I also read this article, which I think is very relevant to what you're talking about. And I say, oh, thank you. I actually hadn't seen that because there's no way I would have read everything. Right?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And so I can sometimes go back to the article and just add another link to another idea. Sometimes even add a paragraph, expand on something. There also have been times where I wrote something that was completely wrong because I was not aware that some of the science I was covering had been debunked by this obscure team working on this project somewhere in another country. And someone would tell me about saying, by the way, have you seen this study which shows that what you wrote is wrong? I'm like, oh.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And I would edit the article again and say, by the way, sorry. This is wrong. Here's the latest.
Nick Milo:And just as a side point, that's a really important part for for anyone who suffers from imposter syndrome or perfectionism because you think you have to be right, like, a % of the time out of the gate before you can open your mouth. And instead, you're showing that you can share. I mean, do your best. But if you are if something comes up and you recognize that there's a way that you can improve what you said and express, then great. You can edit.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Absolutely. It's all about there's actually an entire chapter about learning in public in the book. And so it's all about learning in public. But you can see why writing a book felt at odd with this process because, as you say, this is this, permanent object. If I wanna change something, I'm not going to run after everyone who bought a copy and say, by the way, I can just give it back to you in two seconds.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I need to fix something on this page. So it it has a very final feeling to it. I try to solve this with a few things. First, there are a few links in the book where I say, by the way, for the latest, click here and you'll get the latest research. So that's one way.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:But at a more fundamental level, I decided to really see this book as part of an experiment that is a little bit larger. It's another cycle of experimentation for me. This, I hope, is only going to be my first book, and I learned so much in the process of writing it. And I took so many notes. Something I also talk about a lot and I'm a bit advocate for is the idea of metacognition, of really thinking about your own thinking, about reflecting on your own process, not just acting, but reflecting.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And I made sure while writing this book that I was also capturing how it felt, what worked, what didn't work, what I might do differently for the next one. And this is why I hope that this book I'm so proud of is only the first iteration of many other artifacts of my thinking and my research that I might produce in the future.
Nick Milo:Wow. So okay. So you you reframed it. I love it. So it's like this this is yeah.
Nick Milo:Any iterations will be in the second and third. And there will be there will be many books because I read this thing, and it's it's phenomenal. It truly is. I'm not just saying it. Yeah.
Nick Milo:You really knocked it out of the park.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Like Thanks so much. Yeah. It's, I'm still at the stage where only a few select people have read it.
Nick Milo:Mhmm.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And, and I'm getting really good feedback, but I'm so excited for it to be out in the world and to have more people tell me what they think. Because, again, it is part of closing that loop, that experimental cycle, collecting the data, collecting the feedback so you can know then what seeds you're going to plant next.
Nick Milo:Oh, I just love it. What I found amazing as you you're a gardener. However, the structure for your book as an aspiring author
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yeah.
Nick Milo:Like, in two years or so, fingers crossed, I'll have my first book.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:So excited for you.
Nick Milo:Well, thank you. And I'm looking at your structure, and I know I just have a few I just took a few screen grabs to put into here. You have a four part structure.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Mhmm.
Nick Milo:And I went to the appendix. Yeah. And you have this really cool, image.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yeah. Which also is not the latest. It will still be the same. It's just the the labels. I made them
Nick Milo:better. I must know. I I must know your iteration. So I'll I'll find out afterwards. But yeah.
Nick Milo:So it's like like a pie chart. There are four quadrants, but in a circular form. And you're at it's like multi layered because you have an acronym in the book.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes.
Nick Milo:And it was packed.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes.
Nick Milo:Okay. So it's like p a c t. Yeah. And then each part is three chapters.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. So
Nick Milo:it's a 12 chapter book. It's like everything is perfectly balanced and everything. And I'm it's just like And
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:that was so emergent. It was 13 chapters. We only cut one chapter completely out of the book, one month before submission. So it was a gardener process with a last minute switch to architect, basically.
Nick Milo:Wow.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Which is also why I'm so inspired by your approach of saying you need both. You actually need both.
Nick Milo:Interesting.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And especially for a book, I think. So I would say I was you know the Pareto principle, where it's eighty twenty? So for this, it was actually 80% gardener, twenty % architect, and I think it was the perfect balance
Nick Milo:for me. That's lovely. Oh, that's lovely. It's something I'm going to keep in in mind as well. I'm yeah.
Nick Milo:With the with the proposal and everything, just looking at the successful structure is really inspiring.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yeah.
Nick Milo:And I think it actually kinda helped unlock, some stiffness I was having around it. But, you know, stay tuned two years from now, and we'll we'll
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:see you tomorrow. To help, you know, like, if you want me to read your proposal, give you feedback. Oh. % happy to do this. I I feel like I have a a like, I kind of understand how it works a little bit.
Nick Milo:Okay. Yeah. That might be helpful.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yeah.
Nick Milo:Yeah. So I just wanna circle back to the tiny experiment itself. So So in chapter three, like, you set the ground in chapters one and two, you know, go talking about all this structure. And then in chapter three to end part one, it's like the thesis. And it's like, I know this is the thesis chapter, and it just comes out, and it's like, this is the thing.
Nick Milo:It's like, this is the tiny experiment. Here's what you do. And it's just like this single line that pops out. You know? I I will do action for duration.
Nick Milo:Some it's action duration. It just popped. So how, like, what are some good ones or some examples of of tiny experiments?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:You could really use tiny experiments for anything. They're very flexible. As you said, it's just choosing an action, choosing a duration. So you could have creative, tiny experiments that could be about writing, for example. That's what I did with mine where I said, I'm going to do a hundred newsletters in a hundred weekdays.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:That was my experiment. This could be around podcasting, what we're doing right here. You could say, I will do one solo podcast every week for a couple of month, where every week you just pick an idea and you see what happens when you just talk about that idea to other people. It could also be about different formats. You could say, I've seen people do experiments where they say, I'm going to snap one photo every day
Nick Milo:Oh.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:For a month.
Nick Milo:Lovely.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And just capture those moments and practice what it looks like to frame a photo. One of my favorite ones from a member of the Nestlabs community was I am going to reach out to an acquaintance or an old friend every day for one month.
Nick Milo:I need that one. Mhmm. I put so much pressure on, like, the old friends, and then I end up finding myself back on the Internet somewhere.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Yes. Yeah. And we we have this this fear that we haven't been in touch for a while. What are we going to talk about? If you make it part of an experiment, then it's just every day you're like, okay.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Which friend is it going to be? And it can be a little text message. It doesn't have to be complicated asking how they're doing. And, at the end of their experiment, his name is Jamie, the person who was running this experiment. I asked him, I was like, so what does the data look like?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:How did that go? And he was so happy because he decided to not necessarily keep going because it actually was a lot of emotional work to try and figure out what to say and how. But because of that one month of experimenting, he reconnected with so many people. And I think that's a very important part of tiny experiments is knowing that you don't have to keep going indefinitely. The experiment has an end.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:And at the end of the experiment, you can decide. Do I wanna go for another cycle, which could be longer? Do I wanna stop? Do I wanna post? Do I wanna reconsider?
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Do I wanna tweak the format? Do I wanna tweak the action? You have experiments where the outcome is, I really didn't like that actually. And that's not failure. You learn something new.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:So that is success.
Nick Milo:Yes. That that is so profound. And I was just kinda thinking about another angle of this is that in in our society and all the information bombardment, I feel oftentimes that I've lost my sense of control. I know we can say control's an illusion, all that, but we have a sense of control, and that gets disoriented a lot. And with with the tiny experiment mindset, there's a sense of control there.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Mhmm.
Nick Milo:Like, you know, you can control, like you said, tweak for the next time, this and that. You're just kind of actively experimenting, and you I'm not sure if have you noticed that as well that there's just kind of a sense of calm, sort of, you know, confidence control of the of the situation in in a loose way, but you just you know, you're not, like, white knuckling it, but you're just, you know, you know what it is.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I like that you used the word control because I wanna suggest an alternative word
Nick Milo:Oh, please.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Which is agency.
Nick Milo:Oh, I love it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:It's a sense of agency. It's knowing that even though things are not in your control, you will figure out a way. You will find a path that works for you even though you don't know what that path looks like yet.
Nick Milo:Yes. Absolutely. That is so wonderful. And just for anyone listening who's thinking if you're listening to this podcast, how I think, you're totally vibing with what we're talking about, and you're you're kind of wondering, okay. What's my tiny what are a couple options for tiny experiments?
Nick Milo:What would Anne Laure recommend? I'm just sort of curious. Do you have any you know, knowing what you know about me, my audience, and that sort of thing, what are some potential tiny experiments? I know that's kind of a broad question, but
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:I'm going to try and come up with something specific to your community? So thinkers, very curious, they love exploring, learning new things. They probably have a little creative itch.
Nick Milo:Absolutely. Connecting dots.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:That could actually be a really good tiny experiment. Every day choosing two ideas and connecting them together and then publishing somewhere Oh. The result of that connection that you made. So that could be a tweet. That could be a quick Instagram story.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:That could be a quick newsletter. That could be even just telling a friend about it as part of a conversation. That's a form of publishing to the world as well. But every day for the duration of your choice, could be one week, one month, three month, Go into your notes, pick two ideas, connect them together, and then share it with the world.
Nick Milo:I love that. I know you came up with that on the spot, and it's really just perfect. It is just truly perfect, and I think that's a nice way to to end this so everyone here has an action that they might consider if it vibes with them, if it comes with to them at the right time. And so with that, I think we're going to wrap this thing up, and it's been such a gift to have you in Los Angeles briefly and to meet in person. I know our voices are giving out.
Nick Milo:We're putting it all out there, meeting so many wonderful people. And to carve out this moment in time just it means the world to me. So thank you so much, Emily.
Anne-Laure Le Cunff:Thank you so much, Nick. This was wonderful.
Nick Milo:Thanks for tuning in to this episode of How I Think. We'll be sure to add all the links and resources we mentioned in the video description or show notes depending on the platform you're watching or listening from. And if you're curious for more, then feel free to check out another episode. I'll see you there.
